I am a huge fan of David Bowie's classic album Hunky Dory. I was listening to it yesterday, and noticed for the upteenth time the strange and wonderful ending to the song Andy Warhol. There are these odd guitar rhythms and claps that move back and forth in a pleasing but confusing way. Finally, I decided to go out to the web to try to understand how Bowie (et als) made it sound that way, and why it works. I found nothing. So, I asked the "global brain" on Facebook.  Here's what I learned. Please feel free to add your thoughts!


Andrew Sigal
OK, I am not a musician. Can one of my musician friends explain to me how the guitar and rhythm solo at the end of Bowie's "Andy Warhol" works? I've always found it fascinating, because it sounds like the guitar and (claps? toe taps?) aren't in the same time. And yet somehow, they work together. What is going on here?

Comments

Cameron
I'm no longer much of a musician either, but it sounds to me like the claps are just on the off beats, and the guitar is alternating off and on, but cycling around. The guitar drags a little at 3:10, which makes it sound like they're completely out of whack, but it gets back in time 10 seconds later. My first thought was that the guitar might be playing drag triplets, but I don't think it is, pretty sure it's just off and on.

Cameron
I take it back. The guitar is indeed playing drag triplets, which are three notes per two beats, starting on the 2nd beat of the 2nd measure.

Cameron
So the crazy effect you're hearing is partly due to the guitar playing triplets while the claps are on off beats, and the fact that the pattern the guitar is playing only has two notes, so it sort of shifts back and forth from B-E-B to E-B-E in your head.

Karlo The harmonic guitar part is not triplets in the sense of a 3:2 or 3:4 polyrhythm. It's playing dotted quarters (3 1/8th notes long) over the 4/4 time signature.

The claps are alternating stereo channels (in the mix I have), playing on the backbeats (2 & 4). This is in contrast with the part the rhythm guitar plays in the first three minutes of the song, which accents beats 1 & 3.

The beginning of the section starts sloppily, and the tracks drift in and out of sync, which makes me wonder if the headphone mix in the studio was too low.

Cameron Karlo, dotted quarters starting on two was my first thought, but I couldn't make it line up, at least for the first two bars. 3/2 lined up perfect, and then got a little out of whack at 3:10. Maybe it's both? Drag triplets, turning into dotted quarters? I dunno, I was a trumpet player not a drummer.

Andrew Sigal Someone should turn this into a blog post for the world to enjoy

Annette Andrew, I was just thinking this...

Andrew Sigal @Clark - you're a drummer... any thoughts?

Kris
Wow. Thx for the excellent explanation Cameron and Andrew for the perceptive question!

Cameron Thanks Kris, however I live in fear that one of andrew's real musician friends might show up shortly and point out my mistakes... I'm approximately 75% confident in that explanation ;-)

Kris All in the cause of sharing good information!

Andrew Sigal
Thank you for the explanation. I think I understand (?) Bowie was definitely a clever and innovative musician who surrounded himself with clever and innovative musicians. I have always felt that Hunky Dory was the pinnacle of his work.

I think another important effect in this strange sound is the fact that they are playing with the stereo separation, with the guitar bouncing back and forth between the L and R.

Cameron Ok, I've made you a little track that might make my explanation clearer, please don't laugh. This starts out with a kick, then plays the claps, with the kick, then the guitar, with the kick, then both, with the kick, and then removes the kick.  SOUNDCLOUD.COM

Cameron Also, I agree with you that something is happening with the L/R, although I listened to a remastered version, and I think it's more subtle than just bouncing back and forth.

Andrew Sigal Wow, thanks. I'm gonna have to listen to the two of the back and forth a bit...

Trapper
Great song and great album. I'm on the fly but this is my first quick pass. (I did this before reading this thread but think it agrees with Cameron’s analysis.)

My Eulogy for my Dad

My father and I at the Space Needle, Seattle, WA, many years ago

Fathers and sons… need I say more?

Father son relationships can be complex, and ours was no exception.

Let’s face it, my dad could be a pain in the ass… But, he was always there to pick me up when it mattered.

I recall one night when I was very young, falling down a short flight of stairs landing on my face. My father was right there. He picked me up - literally - carried me down another flight of stairs and out to the car. He rushed me to the hospital. No questions asked.

Some of you might know of my, er, shall we say, “indiscretion”, when I was at Harvard. My father was right there. No questions asked. No, “What were you thinking?” No, “that was pretty stupid.” He was there to see me through and got me safely to the other side.

I could tell many more stories. But, I’m sure that many people in this room could tell of a time when my father was there for them. And I know for a fact that there are others here today who aren’t aware that he was there, behind the scenes, helping them.

Dad was a stubborn man. It took me years to convince him to get a computer, but, when he finally got one he readily admitted that he then couldn’t live without it. He refused to even try hearing aids until a decade or more after we all knew he was deaf. And he was stubborn when faced with a problem - he was damned well going to solve it.

He was a tough guy to love, but an easy guy to respect.

You have to respect his accomplishments. He was an eagle scout. He got into Harvard College from a small town in what was then rural Pennsylvania. He succeeded admirably at Harvard Business School. He got my mom to marry him – that in itself is worthy of respect. He bought a bankrupt chemical company and turned it into Solutek Corp – a venture that was a great success for decades. He helped to save the Shirley-Eustis house, now a national historical landmark. And he assembled one of the world’s foremost collections of antique musical instruments. He was internationally regarded as a major figure in the world of early music, its instruments, and its preservation.

He was a tough guy to love, but in the past year we learned to love each other. Some of you may know that 11 months ago I had a heart attack. Dad was in Europe at the time and hopped on the next available series of flights to get him to my bedside in California. The process of re-bonding and healing old wounds began in earnest in my hospital room. And it continued a few short weeks ago as I sat with him at the Brigham here in Boston. I am deeply grateful that my father and I began creating a relationship based on both love and respect. My only regret is that we didn’t have more time for this process.

Sometimes I feel my dad inside me. These hands are his hands. I feel him looking out through my eyes. As I look out at this room I - no, we - we are grateful that all of you are here today to demonstrate how many people he touched, and how important he was in all of our lives.

He will not soon be forgotten.

Marlowe Sigal RIP

In front of Bibliotheque National, Paris

Marlowe Arthur Sigal

1930-2018

Rest in Peace

At the opening of the Sigal Museum in Easton, PA

With the Celestial Seasonings SleepyTime Bear, Boulder, CO

Playing Sax, Boston, MA

On the train, outside London

In front of Musee de al Musique, Paris